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Messaging systems that require you to give out your phone number as identification are ... at best, suboptimal. See Signal, Telegram.

I realize it makes many things easy, but it's got so many drawbacks (starting with security) that I can't really accept it as a compromise.

@liw Telegram added the usernames on top so you don't have to share your number everywhere, but that's still not great.

My use case, which I think is probably common is that I have a small child who doesn't have a SIM. It would be nice to be able to text when he's on the net though.

Works with iMessage...

@ted It seems to me that Telegram still requires one to have a phone number, but it's a step forward if those one communicates with don't have to have it.

I've not use iMessage (not being in the Apple ecosystem), but Matrix works without phone numbers too, which is a thing I like about it.

@liw yeah, I'm optimistic about Matrix in general. We'll see if it can continue to grow.

@ted Aye. I've been mostly quite satisfied with it. There may be a little too much centralization in practise, though, until I get the tuits to set up my own home server or find someone to do it for me.

@liw @ted what about #DeltaChat it is decentralized and your peers don't even need to use Delta Chat since it works with #email

@adbenitez @liw ah, that's interesting, I hadn't heard of Delta Chat before. Definitely an interesting concept.

@ted @adbenitez It's definitely an interesting concept, but I want to get rid of the broken swamp that is email. Also, delta.chat/en/ doesn't seem to say anything about the license. So I can't say I'm interested.

@liw @ted it is open source, iirc there was a link in the page (clients are gpl and core mpl more permissive for empresarial use) i like email a lot, and deltachat makes email encryption to work out of the box for humans

(check github.com/deltachat)

@liw @ted also there is #coi (chat over imap) which may change things in the email world as know today

@adbenitez @ted You can stop @'ing me about this now, thanks. I've had enough of a look to know I don't want to hear more.

@liw @ted woops! sorry didn't meant to spam you, have a nice day 👋

@liw Mad respect for you but I think that what often gets lost in these conversations is the idea of a threat model and comparison.

Is Signal better or worse than [fill in the blank]?

Is it worse than a verified OMEMO on top of XMPP where you run your own server? No.

Is it better than plain text? Heck yes!

Is it better than WhatsApp? Heck yes!

And I can get people to use Signal in just a few minutes.

Let's not make the great the enemy of the good.

@emacsen @liw setting up an app like #DeltaChat is pretty easy, just need an email address and your password since it is just an email client, the big plus is decentralization and reach, and to me is really important not having to give a phone number, while #email addresses are really cheap to get

@emacsen @liw (more context: I can have only one SIM and is really tied to my identity, with my phone number is really easy to get my ID number, birthday and my home address)

@emacsen I agree that Signal is good in many ways. That does not excuse its use of phone numbers, to me.

Also, a bunch of my friends stopped using Signal because it broke badly: they don't get a notification of a new message.

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